Pimp Wagon - UPDATE: Restore back in action

Suzuki van tech question and answers.
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

The F5A is in the middle of getting a rebuild at the moment.

Anyone know what type of turbo is off the F5A?

Mechanic is going to get a quote to see how much to rebuild is but would like to look around to see how much these cost.

Also, what are people thoughts of getting rid of the engine fan and replacing it with an electric one?

Cheers
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Brayden
Posts: 9101
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Location: Canberra ACT
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Turbo is the smaller of the RHB31 series. (The F6A RHB31 is slightly larger, with a different manifold flange measurement.) They're about $350 to buy second hand. If you were buying new I'd go for a Garrett GT12 - even though you'd need to modify the manifold/flange.

Switching to an electric fan is an inexpensive way to free up some horsepower, I'm doing that with my van very soon. Just need to order an in-hose thermostat switch housing.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
User avatar
Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Hi All,

It's been a while since my last post, 1 year and 3 months or there about to be exact! :-o

Just to give you all up to speed, since my last posts.
My mechanic has my engine to have it rebuilt and I said....take your time, and take our time we did :)
Soon after I dropped off my engine back then, my next mission was to find a rebuild kit for the engine. I knew this would be no easy task. I came across a site which sells (what looks to me) hard to find OEM parts for our Suzuki's and after giving my VIN number, they were able to provide me all the bits and pieces for a engine rebuild. I did ask if the rebuild kit was the same as the standard F5A, which they advised, both F5A engines are different and according to the part numbers, it was also different.
After the engine stripped down, the block, pistons, etc... was still in good shape and since I had the rebuild kit delivered from Japan. Things were looking good. Fast forward a few months, then I got some bad news about the head.

The major hurdle we had was the head, my mechanic had a very hard time stripping it down to check the overall condition, which was not good at all. Once stripped, he said, since it's a turbo F5A head, he was not sure if the local F5A head is the same? He said we could risk just getting a local F5A head rebuilt and see how we go.
I told him to hold off for a while until I do some research to see if the Turbo F5A head is in fact different to the local F5A head. I mean, surely they should be the same, but after thinking about it, with most Turbo and Non turbo of the same engine type, internals are usually different (stronger).
So the only major difference I can see with my Turbo F5A is it's EFI whereas the local F5A is carby and of course N/A. This is when the project came to a very slow paced, with my other commitments, it came to a hult and that's where I was at...

Fast forward a year or so to now....looking at my Every parked at the back collecting dust everyday, I was to pull my finger out and give it another try to see if I can get the project ball rolling again :)
A few weeks ago I contacted the same place I got my rebuilt kit from and enquired about the head, again, they advised both the heads are different and according to the VIN number I provided, the standard F5A head will not fit my engine, they did some part number cross reference and both were different. At this point I had a feeling that I may have to source my head through Yahoo Auctions. After a few email conversations, with luck being on my side, they managed to source me down a fully rebuild head for my Turbo F5A!!! So the ball is back in motion....Will be dropping this off soon to my mechanic to give it a once over.

Received the delivery this afternoon, see pics....
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Talking about reviving an 4 year old thread!!!

What can I say, this is one hell of a long rebuild.

Before I go on, like to apologise before hand for a long post, best to go grab a cuppa...read on.

Latest Update:
Since my last reply, back in Oct 2012! lets just say the rebuild has run into the following problems:
- The cylinder bore has been honed down and it's just outside of safe spec, as the cylinder that went, had a lot of scuff marks.
- Oversized turbo piston no longer exist, so will be using the old pistons which is in OK condition with new rings, but can't guarantee if it will have a good compression/seal, so might be issues later down the track.
- Turbo has shaft play and looks like the seals may have gone due to the oil burnt marks that I can see.

So the above is the concerns back in late 2012, so I told my friend mechanic just to put the engine back together and I'll put the engine back and see what happens.
With family/work commitments, same goes for my mechanic, since he is the store manager at one of the franchise workshop, head office just want to pump out cars. Then a new owner has come on board and purchased a few franchise from head office and now puts pressure on the store managers to get as much quick jobs in and out to make $. I feel his pain and understand why he hasn't finished my engine. Back in the glory days, he had his own workshop and did heaps with my GTi's I had over the years.

So with the issues outlined above, within the last year or so, I have managed to sourced the following items to hopefully overcome the issues above:
- Cylinder sleeves, these were rare turbo ones, apparently non turbo and turbo are different? Probably a marketing ploy to get me to purchase them, but the price difference wasn't that much between the two and it was the very last set and no more was being made so I thought I'd better grab them. Since the F5A turbo block is so bloody rare, I figured I use the sleeves to get it back to factory spec.
- Couldn't find oversized pistons but managed to track down the very last set of standard turbo pistons!
- After 3+ years on and off searching through Yahoo Auctions, I have tracked down a 2nd hand turbo with the help of Import Monster to be the middle man. Once I received it, it was a lot better condition, so a win win for me.

Yes Brayden, I know you have always recommend a F8B bottom end with other bits and pieces, I have gone this far so I'm going to give the factory F5A a go, touch wood it doesn't fail me for another 5 to 10 years :) If it does, I will probably go down the F8B bottom end as I assume it will be more freely available, that's if the head is still in good shape as my old head was beyond repair.

Since I'm good with my hands and know my way around an engine with trial and error and it will also be a good learning curve, I have just recently got all the bits and pieces back from my mechanic. I told him I'm going to give it a crack myself at my own pace :) I'm sure he is sick of me calling every few months to see where he is at :)
Everything is in various boxes so when I have time I will have to go through it all and sort them out.

During the past 6 years, the Van has been sitting under a carport with the front of the Van just sticking out a little at my parents, and it copped all the elements Melbourne weather has to offer. Over the years I can see rust bubbles starting to form under the paint and thought to myself, I will get to it soon.
I might have left it a little too late, there is a section at the back left just above the rear side window the part where the side panel meets the roof panel, it has started to bubble under there. The right side in the same spot is not so bad. But the main spot I'm worried about is under the windscreen on the drivers side, it's started to bubble really back and along the bottom all the way to the drivers side.
I have since got married and have 3 mini me's, got my own place now for a couple of years, I feel bad ever time I see it when I visit my parents, I have pulled my finger out since I got my engine back recently, and over the weekend I armed myself with an angle grinder and started to remove the rust to see how bad it is, the rear section is not that bad, a few pin size holes which can be fixed. However the front windscreen is a lot worse, as the saying goes for rust on the front windscreen, it's 5x worse once the windscreen is removed.

I'm getting the Van towed back to my place tomorrow, and it be living in my garage and I can pretty much work on it all hours of the night, minus power tools. I will then get the windscreen professionally removed to see how bad it really is under there and start the repair process. I have already removed most of the rust bubbles down to bare metal and applied rust converter.
In the attached pics is from today, ready for tomorrow's towing, I have put gaffa tape over the bare metal parts just for now until it gets back to my place so I can remove and start on it.
Had to push it out of it's resting place on the side of the carport and towards the drive way ready for it's voyage. Once I get the rust repaired and all good, not sure what I am going to do with the paint, get a colour match? or just do a two tone colour scheme, I have not budget for paint so it will be another hole in the wallet.

In the second pic, I just noticed a nice dent on the front! probably my boys at some stage!

Sorry to bore you all, more to come.
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Brayden
Posts: 9101
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:09 am
Location: Canberra ACT
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Glad to hear you're still chipping away at it. You'll have a hell of a job trying to match the paint. It's Ford Citric Acid with a one-off metallic pearl clear coat (done by the owner before me). Considering the amount of stripping you'll have to do for rust repair I'd just keep going and get it all, then respray it - same colour without the pearl? Wouldn't be too hard on the wallet.
Keep going though mate, it'll be good to see it back on the road eventually.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Yes I remember you mentioned about the custom paint a while back and wasn't looking forward to colour match, I did consider just a basic paint in green something simple which can be easy colour match if needed for touchup, etc.... I'll see what my options/budgets are when everything is up and running.

Another update, got the windscreen guy coming early in the morning to remove the windscreen so I can start cracking into it, was meant to come today but in my area in the afternoon is the worst bumper to bumper traffic so he said he will turn up tomorrow morning instead.

Over the last couple of days, I have taken my radiator for an inspection and flush to get rid of all that Cemi-Weld stuff I used back in the day to see and fix the smoke issue, a word of warning this stuff is bad for radiator and heater cores. After dropping it off earlier in the week, the guys said if I can remove the heater core as well as that is probably clogged up as well.
Wasn't looking forward to removing the main heater core up the front, the rear heater core is pretty easy, the front, I tried with the dash on, impossible, so wasn't looking forward to removing the dash.
Dash is out, removed the aircon unit which was no longer in use that was next to the heater box, the vent box where it gets outside air that goes into the cabin, the 4 bolts was rusted out and eaten away so spent most of my time getting it out, after that came out the rest was easy. Picked up my freshly condition radiator today and then dropped off the two heater cores to get done.
Removed the old alarm system (wiring) and tidied up all the wiring that was behind the dash, after the rust has been repaired (best effort) then going to try and clean up the dash area the best I can, free of dust, etc...

More to come.
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User avatar
Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Update:

Some progress, got the windscreen removed and the rust was not as bad as I thought, to some it might look bad but I think I can work with it.

Below are pics of my progress:

Some rough work to get most of the rust down to bare metal:
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Also on the top rear of the Van:
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Removing the rest of the old urethane seal:
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Spent more time removing 95% traces of rust back to bare metal, got it as shiny as I can:
rust10.jpg
Notices some rust bubbles under the rear side windows, so I started on this as well:
I have already completed this rear side window, didn't take any pics yet.
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Next will be the other side rear window which has some bubbles but I might as well do them as well to be safe.
I will also be removing the sliding door windows to see if there is any rust under there.

Also not shown in the pics, there is a few surface rust on the roof and the front of the van, I got these down to bare metal and its only surface rust.

Work in progress :)
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Brayden
Posts: 9101
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:09 am
Location: Canberra ACT
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If you're looking to eradicate rust, I found a heap around the bottom of the tailgate jamb and behind the rear bumper when I owned it.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Yes I did notice the ones on the bottom of the tailgate back in the day, today it doesn't look any worse, paint has bubbled but will tackle it anyway.

Removed the rear bumper today and it looks like it hasn't got any worse, I have checked this spot back in the day so it hasn't spread, looks like more elbow grease for these two.

Another question, still deciding if I should ditch the engine fan and go for electric? People I have spoke to said just leave it, but I wouldn't mine just removing it give that area some space and see if I can get an electric fan that I can still use the factory shroud.

Cheers
Last edited by Tay on Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brayden
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Location: Canberra ACT
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I'd go electric without hesitation. It would have to free up a few KW.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Yep, I was leading towards electric, need to get one of those inline temp sensor adapters things, will look soon and see whats out there.

Some updates:

Since I'm not going to paint anytime soon, I asked one of my mates who knows a panel beater what I should do to the bare metal once the rust has been repaired.
Since the van will always be garaged, his advise was to use etch primer over the bare metal, and when I'm ready to paint, light sand then filler, then smooth out all the imperfections.

After rust converter, then metal tech fiberglass filler to fill the holes, rough sanded back then etch primer, it's rough at the moment, didn't bother to smooth it out yet since this will be done later when filler goes on, this is just to cover the bare metal.
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Still gotta fiberglass that last section on the top right that is bare metal.
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Pretty happy how it's turned out so far, by all means I'm not a pro, but can follow instructions :)

I have taken the two front lights out and the plastic piece that goes across, there is some rust on the center support that holds the center piece together. I will be tackling this and the rear bottom tailgate in the next few days.

Also noticed the metal lip that runs on the top side of the van, there is some surface rust there as well, the old filler has started to crack so rust is forming, it looks like I may have to do both sides too or I could just leave it and if I decide to get a pro to paint the Van, I get them to do it.
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Got around to finishing the bottom of the tailgate, ever since I got the van, I did notice some small pin holes at the bottom and the paint never bubbled and it doesn't look like it was getting worse.

After the first grinding back to bare metal, I can see it had previously been bogged up, most likely before the respray.
tailgate01.jpg
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Using the dremel tool to grind back the surface rust, looks like it's eaten it's way through, got the most I can.
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I noticed two holes just under the rear handle, looks like it hasn't spread, so dremel out all the rust.
tailgate04.jpg
After two rounds of rust converter and waiting 24 hours, I know you can work soon after the rust converter has been applied and cleaned, but have been told to wait 24 hours for it to fully dry, a bit overkill but anything to help slow/stop the rust is a good thing.
Then fiberglass filler, then sand, then fiberglass again on some spots that didn't get enough filler.
tailgate05.jpg
tailgate06.jpg
Then on with the etch primer, did a few coats.
tailgate07.jpg
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The front center support that holds the center plastic garnish between the two headlights, had some surface rust, so I got to that as well.
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Brayden
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Location: Canberra ACT
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This looks like it is entering full respray territory.  :D
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

Tell me about it, at this rate, I will have to setup a go fund me page to help pay for the respray!

That's pretty much most of the bad rust taken care at the moment, if I'm being really picky, then the whole van will be back to bare metal, so not going there :)

Next on my to do list is to put back the front heater core and the dash, but I am currently waiting on some parts, I just went on a spending spree over at Megazip site, they are currently having a xmas sale, 10% off on all parts so a bit of saving helps.

Some of the parts I'm waiting for is:

#48: Circle foam padding that connects between the vent box and the heater box.
#49: Rectangle foam padding that sits between the vent box opening and the firewall.
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I could have made these padding myself but these were just just $7 each so why not.

So before the parts arrives, going to clean up the dash a bit and clean all the heater box parts including the heater fan.

Then look into finding the right electric fan, and one of those inline temp sensor adapter for the top radiator hose, then the part I'm not looking forward to is cleaning and putting the engine back together!
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Tay
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Melbourne

About a month ago I took my radiator to a local radiator place for them to see if they can freshen it up as I wasn't sure with all the Chemiweld radiator stop leak additive I used clogged it up!.
They did a great job getting all that crap out and it's good as new, when I mentioned the Chemiweld stuff, they advised to get the heater core checked out as well as it's probably clogged.
These Van has two, main one at the front and a rear one, I got them to check both of these, they didn't charge for these two to be cleaned :)

Next on my to do list, install the heater core back into the heater box and give the box a good clean. Disassembling the heater box wasn't all to difficult, gave it a nice clean, put back together.
heaterbox01.jpg
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The heater fan was clogged up with dust, took it apart and gave it a good old bath and scrubbed.
heaterbox03.jpg
Close up of the foam flap, the old foam has turned brown and as soon as you touch it, the foam flakes off. Luck I has some thin foam lying around which was the same thickness, cut down to size with heavy duty double sided tape. There was another flap a bit further up which you can't see, one side had to be re done as well.
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