So, I bought a Suzuki - new user

[Lil' red ute]

HI all,

Have just bought my first Mighty Boy and thought I would join the forum. Have been doing a bit of reading to try and gain as much info as I can...

My car:
Automatic, fairly original - bought as a non-goer (suspected blown head gasket...). One the way back home with it on the trailer I managed to buy a second hand F5A long motor - just in case. It fit nicely in the back of the MB!

I had a look at the second hand engine after I got it all home - it has been rebuilt and is in real good condition except for the head gasket appears to be "not quite right". I have looked at a heap of pics of F5A gaskets online and they all appear to have the same issue with the placement of one of the coolant holes.

So, question #1: Has anyone struck this before? The hole became blocked with crud, meaning there was very little coolant flow around the combustion chamber on #1 cylinder.

The engine in the car turns out to be a F8B - pretty cool I thought... Until I checked the rego papers; still rego'd with an F5A. Seeing as I do not feel like engineering this car, that will be coming out, and the second hand F5A going on in. YEP - basically the opposite of what is usually done.

Question #2: Should I hit any issues going back to F5A? I have read that F5A to F8B is a bolt-in, so I am hoping for it to go back easily.

Thanks,

W

[playwme]

You don't need engineering for the F8b. It's an engine that came out in that model of car. Fix it up and leave it in. There's nothing fun about an F5a mated to an Auto box.

[Lil' red ute]

You don't need engineering for the F8b. It's an engine that came out in that model of car.

What model Mighty Boy came out with an F8B...?

[Tez]

You don't need engineering for the F8b.

I think you'll find you do...

[Lil' red ute]

Here's the thing:

1. I am by no means an expert on any Suzuki, especially a MB

2. I cannot find ANY info on the F8B being fitted to a MB

3. F5A to F8B exceeds 20% increase - therefore engineer report req'd

4. I am always willing to be proven wrong. Random comments on the 'net doesn't count though

Anyways, getting back to the other part of my post about the head gasket - I would be willing to hear any experiences regarding the F5A and head gaskets - is it normally #1 cylinder that gives problems??

[m00neelee]

Welcome Lil' red ute,

I would recommend contacting Roads And Maritime Services. The regulation, in my opinion, opens a real can of worms. To paraphrase "any engine more than 20% larger than the largest original optional engine for that series.

The Mighty Boy - SS40T only came with a 550cc F5A, but other vehicles in the SS40 range had 540cc T5B, 550cc F5A, 550cc Turbo F5A and 800cc F8B. The Alto (Hatch in Aus) was sold as a SS40V (F5A) or SS80V (F8B).

Unfortunately it is up to the RMS to decide if the SS40T is a unique model, or part of the SS40 series. If they make a decision, it will say yes or no, but it will be in writing.

[Lil' red ute]

Yeah, RMS can be very pedantic about their rules and regulations. I will call tech support and ask, but I can see the answer now - and it will not be favourable for the F8B.

Will

[Brayden]

The answer is that the model designation SS40T was never fitted with an F8B, and that motor exceeds the capacity limitations. That being said, all other tech aspects of an MB are equal to the F8B Alto/Hatch models, so the process of engineering is a simple check-box list that shouldn't take more than a few hours to complete. It also helps that the F8B maintains compliance with ADR27C, which means there's no need for any emissions testing.

If you weren't concerned with absolute legality I do know several F8B powered MBs that have passed a blue slip with the only the change of engine number noted. Hardly a crime really when you consider that the power difference is 10kw.

There's nothing fun about an F5a mated to an Auto box.

I'd say it borders on dangerous. Having owned and driven a lazy F5A powered auto MB I can say that it was the most miserable and stressful experience I have had behind the wheel.

[Bear351c]

I haven't experienced any probs with my F5A, yet, but the head gasket problem is a common one on ALL cars. Aftermarket gaskets are made to "someones" standard, not necessarily the Manufacturer. The main problem with the head on your Suzi, is TAP WATER !

Give the engine a good flush, when it's nice and warm, drain the water and put a coolant in there. Alternatively, get a hobby knife and trim your gasket to suit your engine.
(Practice on the old, crusty one, first) Dont forget to flush your radiator, and heater core as well.

[Lil' red ute]

Alternatively, get a hobby knife and trim your gasket to suit your engine.
(Practice on the old, crusty one, first)

I'm not really sure what you are recommending there...??!?!

Anyway, after a but more research, it seems the F5A is bad for blowing head gaskets. After reviewing the head gasket design that was fitted to the engine, and what is currently available I have designed an improved gasket which I have submitted to a gasket factory. It features re-sized coolant passage holes, some extra holes and revised sealant layout.

Hopefully they will be able to produce it at a reasonable cost (anything is do-able, but overall costs usually determines practicality). If all looks good I am expecting a prototype to be done next week for me to check against an F5A head and block.

Even though my MB is not really a "project", I might start a thread next week detailing a few little items I will be doing to it with some pics and info to help out others. Updated head gasket (hopefully!), ribbed belt conversion, COP ignition conversion should do me for a little bit as this is just meant to be a cheap little run about.

W

[Bear351c]

If your gasket has a round hole, and your head and block have a slot, cut the gasket so the slots and holes are all the same shape and size.

[Lil' red ute]

If your gasket has a round hole, and your head and block have a slot, cut the gasket so the slots and holes are all the same shape and size.

OK, now I understand what you mean, ta. That would be good advice to give a first year apprentice - just to see if they would actually do it...

[playwme]

The answer is that the model designation SS40T was never fitted with an F8B, and that motor exceeds the capacity limitations. That being said, all other tech aspects of an MB are equal to the F8B Alto/Hatch models, so the process of engineering is a simple check-box list that shouldn't take more than a few hours to complete. It also helps that the F8B maintains compliance with ADR27C, which means there's no need for any emissions testing.

If you weren't concerned with absolute legality I do know several F8B powered MBs that have passed a blue slip with the only the change of engine number noted. Hardly a crime really when you consider that the power difference is 10kw.

There's nothing fun about an F5a mated to an Auto box.

I'd say it borders on dangerous. Having owned and driven a lazy F5A powered auto MB I can say that it was the most miserable and stressful experience I have had behind the wheel.

Well, bugger me. I always assumed mightyboys had come with the 800cc option. I guess cause there's so bloody many around and of all the posts I've ever read stating "just chuck in an F8B" I don't ever recall them being followed by "but you'll need engineering".

Guess I'll persist with the G10 Conversion in mine then. Had camshaft bearing issues but I picked up a whole G10 Swift with a full tank of fuel for $50 the other day so should be plenty of good parts to finesse the conversion in the MB.

[Lil' red ute]

I always assumed mightyboys had come with the 800cc option. I guess cause there's so bloody many around and of all the posts I've ever read stating "just chuck in an F8B" I don't ever recall them being followed by "but you'll need engineering".
.

Yep, that's the problem with internet folklore sometimes... A "mate of a mate" said it should be OK, therefore it is then posted on a forum as gospel. Sometimes weeding through the BS is half the fun. Sometimes it is not...

I have been up against some firm believers in the "mate of a mate" school of thought in the past (on another forum); despite me having owned numerous examples of the vehicle in question, plus owning factory literature, plus having years of experience. I try to let most of them slide - it is hard though when someone has asked a specific question, which has been answered by someone that clearly has no idea. If you don't provide the correct answer for the OP they might act on the wrong info. This thread has some beauties itself.

Anyways, good luck with your conversion. I will be going back to "standard".

W

[arklan]

Well, bugger me. I always assumed mightyboys had come with the 800cc option. I guess cause there's so bloody many around and of all the posts I've ever read stating "just chuck in an F8B" I don't ever recall them being followed by "but you'll need engineering".

Guess I'll persist with the G10 Conversion in mine then. Had camshaft bearing issues but I picked up a whole G10 Swift with a full tank of fuel for $50 the other day so should be plenty of good parts to finesse the conversion in the MB.

i think the reason is that the f8b and f5a look identical and the difference isnt mind blowing, youd need to go over every inch of the engine just to know an f8b was in there instead of the f5a, no one would ever know unless you told them.
it bolts in perfect like it was meant to be in there and is safe, i dont see any problems