FMU = fuel management unit?
Fuel only ECU?
Now with added boost
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boosted_alto
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:54 pm
there aint no ecu!!
its a carby engine man!
plz help me and guide me thru thurboin a carby! i just need help with the fuelling bit!
its a carby engine man!
plz help me and guide me thru thurboin a carby! i just need help with the fuelling bit!
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boosted_alto
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:54 pm
An FMU is a mechanical device connected to a vaccum/boost source and uses a mechanical disk! when it senses boost, it increases fuel pressure!
Like, one FMU is set for a base pressure of 30psi and a boost pressure increase ratio of 8:1, at 1 psi boost pressure, the fuel pressure would increase to 38psi!
and likewise at 8psi, the fuel pressure would increase to 94psi! its done like with a ratio of 8:1, the FMU would raise the fuelpressure by 8psi per 1Psi of Boost Pressure!
OK FORGET THE Fmu GUYZ AND JUST TELL ME IF I CAN USE THE CHARADE FPR TO GIVE ME FUEL PRESSURE AND HOW MUCH PSI WUD IT GIVE??
Like, one FMU is set for a base pressure of 30psi and a boost pressure increase ratio of 8:1, at 1 psi boost pressure, the fuel pressure would increase to 38psi!
and likewise at 8psi, the fuel pressure would increase to 94psi! its done like with a ratio of 8:1, the FMU would raise the fuelpressure by 8psi per 1Psi of Boost Pressure!
OK FORGET THE Fmu GUYZ AND JUST TELL ME IF I CAN USE THE CHARADE FPR TO GIVE ME FUEL PRESSURE AND HOW MUCH PSI WUD IT GIVE??
As I have recently learned (thanks again Col) the Charade regulator is pretty much useless for anything under full boost and what. It only goes on the return line and blocks it off to maintain fuel pressure in the carby. You will need a stand-alone regulator or something simple like the recirculating restrictor that I described earlier.
The only problem with that is that the restrictor is a fixed size, so it will set the pressure at one rate, in my case ~20PSI, so when you stick the boot in for extended periods of time it will eventually run the carby dry. Colin used a system like this, only he had a switch on the recirculator that seals it off when you pull a lever, which delivers the full 38PSI of pressure to the carby whenever you need it.
I'm going to brainstorm a self-adjusting restrictor soon and will let you know how it progresses.
The only problem with that is that the restrictor is a fixed size, so it will set the pressure at one rate, in my case ~20PSI, so when you stick the boot in for extended periods of time it will eventually run the carby dry. Colin used a system like this, only he had a switch on the recirculator that seals it off when you pull a lever, which delivers the full 38PSI of pressure to the carby whenever you need it.
I'm going to brainstorm a self-adjusting restrictor soon and will let you know how it progresses.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
At this stage $300 is about 2-3% of what the ute has cost me. 
I thought that a rising rate regulator was only suitable for EFI motors?
I will have to do some research.
I thought that a rising rate regulator was only suitable for EFI motors?I will have to do some research.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
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boosted_alto
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:54 pm
I think FMU's rising rates are good for both EFi and Carby because all those with GTTi's Efi engines in CHarade and cb60 owners UPGRADE to rising rate FMU's at more boost!
Like when they increase the stock boost, here in Pakistan people upgrade to FMU's to make more power!
lemme know abt any other alternatives too! CheerZ!
Like when they increase the stock boost, here in Pakistan people upgrade to FMU's to make more power!
lemme know abt any other alternatives too! CheerZ!
Only issue i can see with raising the fuel pressure is the amount the carby can handle before it screams no more and craps itself, as in won't deliver fuel properly or meter it properly.
Anyone know the limit of fuel pressure you can supply to the charage carby? I would be interested to know, as i would love to do the turbo conversion to a f8b and slide into my mb one day. Gotta finish my turbo torana project off first. Having fun planning the fuel system atm. Got the GRA carby and adapter setup done, working out a " lean out " protection system atm.
Basically you can stick in an o2 sensor into the zorst, then fit a small lean out detector that fires an injector when it detects a " lean state " to richen the mixture up, until the carby catches up, if it does. Yes you can get LPG injectors, i've got a LPGI system in my ford, going to use one of it's injectors as the injector in the torana project if i impliment the system i'm nutting out atm. I won't pinch if from the ford but i'll get another one of them, they are good for 40kw of fuel flow, enough to keep my torana from running lean.
Couldn't you stick an injector into the intake, say in the custom piping between the turbo and the carby hat, and run an extra injector controller/ lean out sensor and o2 sensor?
A linky for ideas http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html , & http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_0693/article.html
Food for thought.
Cheers
ToranaGuy
Anyone know the limit of fuel pressure you can supply to the charage carby? I would be interested to know, as i would love to do the turbo conversion to a f8b and slide into my mb one day. Gotta finish my turbo torana project off first. Having fun planning the fuel system atm. Got the GRA carby and adapter setup done, working out a " lean out " protection system atm.
Basically you can stick in an o2 sensor into the zorst, then fit a small lean out detector that fires an injector when it detects a " lean state " to richen the mixture up, until the carby catches up, if it does. Yes you can get LPG injectors, i've got a LPGI system in my ford, going to use one of it's injectors as the injector in the torana project if i impliment the system i'm nutting out atm. I won't pinch if from the ford but i'll get another one of them, they are good for 40kw of fuel flow, enough to keep my torana from running lean.
Couldn't you stick an injector into the intake, say in the custom piping between the turbo and the carby hat, and run an extra injector controller/ lean out sensor and o2 sensor?
A linky for ideas http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html , & http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_0693/article.html
Food for thought.
Cheers
ToranaGuy
It's update time MB Parts list! send part info to toranaguy74@optusnet.com.au|
hey brayden.
contact adaptronic.
the easiest and most effective way i'd do things, is using a complete inside side from a f6a efi, or if thats not available or doesnt bolt up... getting something from a daihatsu mira, getting a larger throttle body.
getting the flange to suit the f8b head. for low/mid boost, standard injectors should work perfectly.
getting adaptronic to either getting a replacement dizzy with a crank angle sensor or hybriding something with the standard dizzy.
running a in-line efi pump and getting an adaptronic wired up and turning the f8b full injected. also adding a wide band o2 sensor would help as the auto tune for the fuel side can be switched onto auto tune.
then its just a matter of letting adaptronic setting up the parameters and creating a fuel and ignition map to get the car around til a dyno and getting the figures spot on.
if u can get all the physical side happen. he can get all the wiring and ecu side of things happen very easily.
contact adaptronic.
the easiest and most effective way i'd do things, is using a complete inside side from a f6a efi, or if thats not available or doesnt bolt up... getting something from a daihatsu mira, getting a larger throttle body.
getting the flange to suit the f8b head. for low/mid boost, standard injectors should work perfectly.
getting adaptronic to either getting a replacement dizzy with a crank angle sensor or hybriding something with the standard dizzy.
running a in-line efi pump and getting an adaptronic wired up and turning the f8b full injected. also adding a wide band o2 sensor would help as the auto tune for the fuel side can be switched onto auto tune.
then its just a matter of letting adaptronic setting up the parameters and creating a fuel and ignition map to get the car around til a dyno and getting the figures spot on.
if u can get all the physical side happen. he can get all the wiring and ecu side of things happen very easily.
No need for the hard sell, I've already spoken with Chris about an Adaptronic. But $1000+ at this stage is not worth spending on what is still an experiment.
If I happen to come across a cheap motor that is already EFI then I'll think harder about it, but probably go with a Microtech simply because they are backed by my local tuner.
If I happen to come across a cheap motor that is already EFI then I'll think harder about it, but probably go with a Microtech simply because they are backed by my local tuner.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
Heard about MegaSquirt? DIY efi, you buy the ecu in parts form, and assemble it yourself. Cost about $275 iirc, inc the software to place on a laptop to tune, just a junky old 486 with win95 can do the tune.
Add a couple of injectors, TB, and related sensors i'm sure you could go EFI for under $1k. Inc building the wiring loom, which you have to do yourself, but after a lot of reading, it doesn't look very hard at all. You could keep the carby as a TB, drill the manifold and fit a few injector bungs, then some injectors and fuel rail from another kei class efi car, drill the zorst for the 02 and your laughing. A maf would be easy to hookup if you could find space, if not just another hole into your intake to setup a map.
My g/f's gramps has a mech injected trimph 2600 and it keeps crapping fuel pumps, so he was thinking about upgrading to EFI. I just wish i had the $$ right now to buy a MegaSquirt and play with the ecu. It looks like a lot of fun.
Http://www.megasquirt.info iirc
Cheers
ToranaGuy
Add a couple of injectors, TB, and related sensors i'm sure you could go EFI for under $1k. Inc building the wiring loom, which you have to do yourself, but after a lot of reading, it doesn't look very hard at all. You could keep the carby as a TB, drill the manifold and fit a few injector bungs, then some injectors and fuel rail from another kei class efi car, drill the zorst for the 02 and your laughing. A maf would be easy to hookup if you could find space, if not just another hole into your intake to setup a map.
My g/f's gramps has a mech injected trimph 2600 and it keeps crapping fuel pumps, so he was thinking about upgrading to EFI. I just wish i had the $$ right now to buy a MegaSquirt and play with the ecu. It looks like a lot of fun.
Http://www.megasquirt.info iirc
Cheers
ToranaGuy
It's update time MB Parts list! send part info to toranaguy74@optusnet.com.au|
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Almost a Mini
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 10:09 am
Brayden,
Just get yourself a rising rate pressure regulator and be done with it. . .easy.
On my supercharged Moke (yeah, I know, it's not a kei-car), I run an adjustable 1:1 Malpassi unit (brand new off ebay for about $180). Combine that with a clunkey old Holley blue fuel pump (can deliver 30psi all day) and you're away. Connect the regulator to manifold pressure, adjust it to about 5psi at idle (remember, you're running a carb with a needle and seat arrangement and they don't like sealing against big pressure). There's no need for any greater pressure. . but make sure the pump can deliver enough flow - all the pressure in the world is no good if there's not enough flow to go with it. I've simply tee'd the return line from the regulator back into the feed line to the pump. . .easy. . .no surge tanks (remember, a carb has a fuel bowl - an in-built surge tank) and no other complicated bits.
I take it that using a Charade carb already addresses sealing the throttle shafts and pressurising the fuel bowl so that shouldn't be an issue at least.
Remember to think a bit about the positioning of the fuel pump too. . .electric pumps are great at 'pushing' but not much good at 'pulling' so they need to be close-ish to the fuel tank.
Hope this helps,
Pete in Perth
Just get yourself a rising rate pressure regulator and be done with it. . .easy.
On my supercharged Moke (yeah, I know, it's not a kei-car), I run an adjustable 1:1 Malpassi unit (brand new off ebay for about $180). Combine that with a clunkey old Holley blue fuel pump (can deliver 30psi all day) and you're away. Connect the regulator to manifold pressure, adjust it to about 5psi at idle (remember, you're running a carb with a needle and seat arrangement and they don't like sealing against big pressure). There's no need for any greater pressure. . but make sure the pump can deliver enough flow - all the pressure in the world is no good if there's not enough flow to go with it. I've simply tee'd the return line from the regulator back into the feed line to the pump. . .easy. . .no surge tanks (remember, a carb has a fuel bowl - an in-built surge tank) and no other complicated bits.
I take it that using a Charade carb already addresses sealing the throttle shafts and pressurising the fuel bowl so that shouldn't be an issue at least.
Remember to think a bit about the positioning of the fuel pump too. . .electric pumps are great at 'pushing' but not much good at 'pulling' so they need to be close-ish to the fuel tank.
Hope this helps,
Pete in Perth
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stevan_istheman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:13 am
- Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland
- Contact:
Hey brayden, have you got an intercooler set up yet?
i've just been surfing through Ebay and i found this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %26fvi%3D1
Thought you might be interested if you haven't already seen it.
i've just been surfing through Ebay and i found this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %26fvi%3D1
Thought you might be interested if you haven't already seen it.
BAL4 Designs
For all your mechanical design and drafting requirements.
For all your mechanical design and drafting requirements.
i belive this is the malpassi part you are refering to http://hem.passagen.se/v8rod/tech/malpassi1.gif
sorry for not being in english only pic i could find when i looked into it before but the picture explains more than enough,
then i found this
on the capa site as a "Carby Pressure Regulator, Turbo 10mm" for 129 bucks
hope that helps
sorry for not being in english only pic i could find when i looked into it before but the picture explains more than enough,
then i found this
on the capa site as a "Carby Pressure Regulator, Turbo 10mm" for 129 bucks hope that helps
Last edited by Hewball on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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