Can people please advise me of a good size & location for speakers in the doors?
I guess I'd like the largest speakers I can get to fit flush - I want to retain the standard trim & look of the door.
Cheers
fritz
Speakers to suit MB door?
The largest speaker that would fit flush in the door would be 4" - you can get a split system in 4" that would sound pretty decent. Phillips used to be the only brand that made them, but I'm sure there are others these days.
If you're not too fussed on sound then a set of 4" two-ways would be suitable.
I think the best solution is a set of boxed 6x9's behind the seats for size vs performance vs price.
I have 6.5" splits in the doors, but they're built out with massive pods. Between them and the seats it takes practice to get in and out.
If you're not too fussed on sound then a set of 4" two-ways would be suitable.
I think the best solution is a set of boxed 6x9's behind the seats for size vs performance vs price.
I have 6.5" splits in the doors, but they're built out with massive pods. Between them and the seats it takes practice to get in and out.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
Ta,
I was looking at some infinity splits, and I'm pretty sure they do them in 3.5" & 4"
I may well be using 6x9's in the back as well, although I am contenplating whether 8" subs might be able to fit in the panel where the seatbelts attach.
I really dont want a sub box, and I'm not into the doof doof thing anyway. Just want good balanced sound.
I was looking at some infinity splits, and I'm pretty sure they do them in 3.5" & 4"
I may well be using 6x9's in the back as well, although I am contenplating whether 8" subs might be able to fit in the panel where the seatbelts attach.
I really dont want a sub box, and I'm not into the doof doof thing anyway. Just want good balanced sound.
In that case, steer well-clear of 6"x9" speakers. Fine somewhere you can fit a pair of splits with 6" drivers and a good quality 8" sub.fritz wrote:I really dont want a sub box, and I'm not into the doof doof thing anyway. Just want good balanced sound.
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]
Why steer clear of 6x9's Josh? No offence mate, but I don't suppose you have run them in an MB by any chance?
The set I had boxed up and amplified behind the seats in mine were ace. In fact they offered better clarity and balanced sound than the 6.5" splits I currently have in the front doors. Mind you the 6x9's were mounted about flush with the top of the seats, so they pointed more or less straight into the back of your head.
Basically the problem with mounting speakers in the MB doors is that the footwells are so damn small that your legs end up covering the speaker up, which muffles the sound. That problem is made infinitely worse if you have a loud exhaust to boot. Therefore I pretty much leave my brand new stereo turned off most of the time.
In hindsight I should have stayed with the old system at the expense of my storage area behind the seats.
If I may suggest another thing, don't bother with 2x8" subs in the rear side panels, they will only make the seat belt tensioner rattle, and most of the sound will be lost into the void that runs up and into the cargo area.
A well boxed single 10" sub in a small enclosure coupled with a set of decent amplified speakers is ideal for a well balanced setup in an MB.
Fritz, email me if you like and I'll provide you with a detailed description of the pro's and cons of the many systems I've had in mine over the years.
brayden@tamon.org
The set I had boxed up and amplified behind the seats in mine were ace. In fact they offered better clarity and balanced sound than the 6.5" splits I currently have in the front doors. Mind you the 6x9's were mounted about flush with the top of the seats, so they pointed more or less straight into the back of your head.
Basically the problem with mounting speakers in the MB doors is that the footwells are so damn small that your legs end up covering the speaker up, which muffles the sound. That problem is made infinitely worse if you have a loud exhaust to boot. Therefore I pretty much leave my brand new stereo turned off most of the time.
In hindsight I should have stayed with the old system at the expense of my storage area behind the seats.
If I may suggest another thing, don't bother with 2x8" subs in the rear side panels, they will only make the seat belt tensioner rattle, and most of the sound will be lost into the void that runs up and into the cargo area.
A well boxed single 10" sub in a small enclosure coupled with a set of decent amplified speakers is ideal for a well balanced setup in an MB.
Fritz, email me if you like and I'll provide you with a detailed description of the pro's and cons of the many systems I've had in mine over the years.
brayden@tamon.org
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
Brayden, I'd feel bad getting you to give me a 'detailed' description as no doubt that would take ages & much mightn't be relavent to me...
I have pretty much ruled out building/installing any boxes and the like for the ute. I need the system to be very discrete as it is always parked outside in public areas
Do you reckon 6x9's in the rear panel would vibrate the tesioner? My existing 6" sony explodes don't even come close to rattling anything back there, but then that aint saying much...
I'm thinking then maybe 6x9's in the rear & splits in the doors?
I had another look at the room available in the doors & it looks like I'd be able to get 5" speakers in the spot shown attached, but I'm unsure about the quality of the sound as it'll be pretty much at my hips. Any thoughts?
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fritzgru/i ... GP3135.JPG
I have pretty much ruled out building/installing any boxes and the like for the ute. I need the system to be very discrete as it is always parked outside in public areas
Do you reckon 6x9's in the rear panel would vibrate the tesioner? My existing 6" sony explodes don't even come close to rattling anything back there, but then that aint saying much...
I'm thinking then maybe 6x9's in the rear & splits in the doors?
I had another look at the room available in the doors & it looks like I'd be able to get 5" speakers in the spot shown attached, but I'm unsure about the quality of the sound as it'll be pretty much at my hips. Any thoughts?
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fritzgru/i ... GP3135.JPG
Colin is spot on. My dad mounted a set of speakers in his Gemmy Coupe in precisely the same spot. End result was that they shoot straight into your hips/seat and sound terrible.
Don't rule out building boxes either, as you can mount the speaker on the inside of the hole you cut in the box, and then just carpet over the outside face - from the outside it just looks like part of the interior. I had done that once after my original stereo was stolen and there was no way anyone picked that there was even a stereo in there until I fired it up.
Truth of the matter is that if you have a decent set of 6x9's behind the seats and run them off an amp, you can get really good full range response, and you don't need to have any other speakers. In saying that, at the time I had boxed 6x9's behind my seats I also installed a set of 5" splits in the front doors... when the fade was correctly adjusted that really did give a full sound. Problem was that it needed to be set at 75% front bias to get that effect, which was knocking out the sub. (sub runs off the rear channels).
All things considered, if you are after a inconspicuous system with a well balanced sound without the doof factor, I would be looking at a set of small splits for the front doors, and a set of 6x9's mounted behind the seats somewhere - I'd recommend a set of pre-made 6x9 boxes, or even in the side panels if you choose. The front splits will give you a decent sound stage and your higher frequencies, and the bigger rear speakers will fill out the rest. In actual fact if the splits you choose are of good enough quality you could do away with the rear speakers and install a single 8" or 10" sub and a 4 channel amplifier to run the whole shebang. In reality it all depends on what you listen to. Emphasis on speakers for rock, and subs for pop.
If you do want that detailed description though, I'm only too happy to provide... although I'm pretty much summing everything up here!
Don't rule out building boxes either, as you can mount the speaker on the inside of the hole you cut in the box, and then just carpet over the outside face - from the outside it just looks like part of the interior. I had done that once after my original stereo was stolen and there was no way anyone picked that there was even a stereo in there until I fired it up.
Truth of the matter is that if you have a decent set of 6x9's behind the seats and run them off an amp, you can get really good full range response, and you don't need to have any other speakers. In saying that, at the time I had boxed 6x9's behind my seats I also installed a set of 5" splits in the front doors... when the fade was correctly adjusted that really did give a full sound. Problem was that it needed to be set at 75% front bias to get that effect, which was knocking out the sub. (sub runs off the rear channels).
All things considered, if you are after a inconspicuous system with a well balanced sound without the doof factor, I would be looking at a set of small splits for the front doors, and a set of 6x9's mounted behind the seats somewhere - I'd recommend a set of pre-made 6x9 boxes, or even in the side panels if you choose. The front splits will give you a decent sound stage and your higher frequencies, and the bigger rear speakers will fill out the rest. In actual fact if the splits you choose are of good enough quality you could do away with the rear speakers and install a single 8" or 10" sub and a 4 channel amplifier to run the whole shebang. In reality it all depends on what you listen to. Emphasis on speakers for rock, and subs for pop.
If you do want that detailed description though, I'm only too happy to provide... although I'm pretty much summing everything up here!
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
None taken ya smartarse.Brayden wrote:Why steer clear of 6x9's Josh? No offence mate, but I don't suppose you have run them in an MB by any chance?
6"x9" speakers were originally introduced as a practical solution for more balanced car sound back in the ‘70s. It’s only in the last 15 years that high-output 12V amplifiers have become readily available - finally making in-car sub-woofers feasible.
Oval-cone speakers exaggerate the low-mid frequencies of a signal, offering what manufacturers still refer to as “up to 30% more bass than regular 6” speakers". The benefits of this in an age where in-car sub-woofers were far from practical are obvious. However, there is a good reason why you never see oval-cone speakers used in professional audio. No points for guessing why.
For what it’s worth, your current setup with the splits and the sub shits all over your old system as far as this set of ears is concerned.
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]
Car audio is way to technical for me. The more you get into it the more complex it becomes... 
Hmmm?... What if I got a pair of 6x9 splits & bridged (?) the 4ch head unit (4 x 50) I'll be getting so that the speakers receive more power than 6x9's & splits?
Bah! - Brain hurting....
Hmmm?... What if I got a pair of 6x9 splits & bridged (?) the 4ch head unit (4 x 50) I'll be getting so that the speakers receive more power than 6x9's & splits?
Bah! - Brain hurting....
Colin wrote:it was so simple with AM radio
Shit yeah! We've only just started to scratch the surface! Just wait until you have to deal with the mind-fark of cable selection and routing!fritz wrote:Car audio is way to technical for me. The more you get into it the more complex it becomes...
Of course, you can always buy a CD player from Super Cheap Auto and run some un-shieled figure-8 cable wherever suits you best and you'll still be able to listen to CDs.
However complex or how great a hassle this kind of job becomes is ultimately determined by personal choice. Basic car audio is good for some, middle of the road car audio is good enough for many who are either satisfied with their value or money or content to be ignorant of what really good car audio is - and then you've got the perfectionist bastards who'll never be happy.
Mine too - I'm not really sure what you're asking there but I assume you were meaning to ask about bridging somehow so that there was a power bias to the splits over the 6"x9"s, right?fritz wrote:Hmmm?... What if I got a pair of 6x9 splits & bridged (?) the 4ch head unit (4 x 50) I'll be getting so that the speakers receive more power than 6x9's & splits?
Bah! - Brain hurting....
That's never going to stop the physical characteristics of the 6"x9"s which is to exaggerate low-mids, but chances are if you're not going to run a sub in setup you'll be boosting the lower frequency range anyway.
It's ultimately up to you.
NB: Don't be deceived into thinking that just because you've got a set of splits they are going to sound shit hot, either. There are a number of manufacturers who produce 2-way and 3-way 6" speakers that will provide much better performance than garden variety Sony splits.
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]
I guess for me anyway my budget determines that it wont be too complex. 
I've got a standard (supercheap type) CD player in there which hooks up to a sony 2x25w amp & then onto the 5" explode speakers. This for me is not up to scratch. I suspect the major downfall of this system is the speakers. - They are awfull!!! I'll never buy sony again because of my experience with them.
The head unit also doesn't pick up radio as good as I'd like it to. (my arial is in good nic)
SO, I'll be getting a new head unit (prob base alpine) & speakers. I am looking at infinity, pioneer or maybe alpine speakers. These brands seem to be really good & you can get great deals on them from the US on ebay
If necesarry, I'll look into getting an amp if the head unit isn't up to the job of powering the speakers.
Josh, The question I was trying to ask was - Will one pair of speakers (6x9 splits) sound better (or similar) because they will receive more power (bridging amp or head unit) than two pairs of speakers.
- If you had the 6x9 woofers in the rear with tweeters up front, would a 4" mid in the door add much?
I've got a standard (supercheap type) CD player in there which hooks up to a sony 2x25w amp & then onto the 5" explode speakers. This for me is not up to scratch. I suspect the major downfall of this system is the speakers. - They are awfull!!! I'll never buy sony again because of my experience with them.
The head unit also doesn't pick up radio as good as I'd like it to. (my arial is in good nic)
SO, I'll be getting a new head unit (prob base alpine) & speakers. I am looking at infinity, pioneer or maybe alpine speakers. These brands seem to be really good & you can get great deals on them from the US on ebay
If necesarry, I'll look into getting an amp if the head unit isn't up to the job of powering the speakers.
Josh, The question I was trying to ask was - Will one pair of speakers (6x9 splits) sound better (or similar) because they will receive more power (bridging amp or head unit) than two pairs of speakers.
- If you had the 6x9 woofers in the rear with tweeters up front, would a 4" mid in the door add much?
-
evilgidget
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- Contact:
Sony is shit eh?
Could have told you that...erm... 6 years or so ago...
Cheap crap with an expensive badge on the front. I've been into audio gear for a while, and i can say for car stuff, pioneer/kenwood are the better of the big brands, unless you want to fork out $300 EACH for a set of professional MB-Quart drivers, or $1100 each for a custom speaker, designed specificly to provide perfect response for any door/kick panel you choose...
But this is kinda overboard.
Could have told you that...erm... 6 years or so ago...
Cheap crap with an expensive badge on the front. I've been into audio gear for a while, and i can say for car stuff, pioneer/kenwood are the better of the big brands, unless you want to fork out $300 EACH for a set of professional MB-Quart drivers, or $1100 each for a custom speaker, designed specificly to provide perfect response for any door/kick panel you choose...
But this is kinda overboard.
Gees... seems like every forum I visit there is Sony bashing going on.
My last stereo was all Sony. 12" Sub, 4x50w amp, head unit, 6x9's & splits. Now I will admit that it wasn't THE most perfect sounding system in the world, but bang-for-buck it was fantastic. All up the system probably cost me about $1500, and sounded just as good as setups of twice that figure.
Yes, the cheap GT series of Sony products were absolute shit - and gave Sony a really bad reputation. The XS series were, by contrast, in a totally different league. Its just a shame that few people spent the extra dollars to buy them.
No offence to anyone here, but the downfall of most car audio systems is not the components, but the installation. My XS series 6x9's sounded woefull to start with, they were hollow and distorted at high volume. Then I bought an amplifier to run them, and gained a whole new dimension to the sound. Suddenly it was much richer, and became clear right through the volume range.
It is worth noting that an under driven speaker will always sound worse than an overdriven speaker.
As for bridging, that is best left for subwoofers or high SPL applications only, as you would require a dedicated 4 channel amp just to run a single pair of speakers in bridged mode and keep them in stereo. Some will argue that you can run a pair of speakers off only two bridged channels, but that will overheat and destroy most amps in a matter of time.
As I said in my last post, if you're after a well balanced sound without too much doof, then 2 pairs of decent sized amplified speakers will suit you just fine. Seeing as space and discretion are your other concerns, a set of small splits up front and a set of bigger speakers in the rear would be the go. (rears either 6" 3ways or 6x9 3ways)
Ideally though a set of amped big splits and a modest 10" sub will get you right across the frequency range, but at the cost of intrusive door pods and space behind the seats. Tuning that kind of system not to leave big troughs in the frequency range can also be tricky without an additional equaliser too. You may end up with a sound that is washed out in the midrange, so make sure that if you go in that direction that at least your head unit has some form of EQ functions beyond bass and treble controls.
My setup as it stands consists of a set of Clarion 6.5" splits up front, and a single Fusion 12" subwoofer. Amplification is taken care of by my old Sony 4x50w amp, and I've got a Clarion MP3 remote head unit. To iron out the problems with frequency response I've also got a Clarion equaliser in the glovebox. Tuning the system is proving to be a hassle though, as the settings for a stationary MB are absolutely useless when you add road, engine and exhaust noises into the mix.
Josh has had a fiddle with it and seems to approve that it is a nice system, but the on road performance is nowhere near as good as my old setup owing to the fact that the speakers are now so far away from my ears.
My last stereo was all Sony. 12" Sub, 4x50w amp, head unit, 6x9's & splits. Now I will admit that it wasn't THE most perfect sounding system in the world, but bang-for-buck it was fantastic. All up the system probably cost me about $1500, and sounded just as good as setups of twice that figure.
Yes, the cheap GT series of Sony products were absolute shit - and gave Sony a really bad reputation. The XS series were, by contrast, in a totally different league. Its just a shame that few people spent the extra dollars to buy them.
No offence to anyone here, but the downfall of most car audio systems is not the components, but the installation. My XS series 6x9's sounded woefull to start with, they were hollow and distorted at high volume. Then I bought an amplifier to run them, and gained a whole new dimension to the sound. Suddenly it was much richer, and became clear right through the volume range.
It is worth noting that an under driven speaker will always sound worse than an overdriven speaker.
As for bridging, that is best left for subwoofers or high SPL applications only, as you would require a dedicated 4 channel amp just to run a single pair of speakers in bridged mode and keep them in stereo. Some will argue that you can run a pair of speakers off only two bridged channels, but that will overheat and destroy most amps in a matter of time.
As I said in my last post, if you're after a well balanced sound without too much doof, then 2 pairs of decent sized amplified speakers will suit you just fine. Seeing as space and discretion are your other concerns, a set of small splits up front and a set of bigger speakers in the rear would be the go. (rears either 6" 3ways or 6x9 3ways)
Ideally though a set of amped big splits and a modest 10" sub will get you right across the frequency range, but at the cost of intrusive door pods and space behind the seats. Tuning that kind of system not to leave big troughs in the frequency range can also be tricky without an additional equaliser too. You may end up with a sound that is washed out in the midrange, so make sure that if you go in that direction that at least your head unit has some form of EQ functions beyond bass and treble controls.
My setup as it stands consists of a set of Clarion 6.5" splits up front, and a single Fusion 12" subwoofer. Amplification is taken care of by my old Sony 4x50w amp, and I've got a Clarion MP3 remote head unit. To iron out the problems with frequency response I've also got a Clarion equaliser in the glovebox. Tuning the system is proving to be a hassle though, as the settings for a stationary MB are absolutely useless when you add road, engine and exhaust noises into the mix.
Josh has had a fiddle with it and seems to approve that it is a nice system, but the on road performance is nowhere near as good as my old setup owing to the fact that the speakers are now so far away from my ears.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.