Alto Works RSX: Gearbox Rebuild

[gilly]

My Alto Works RSX (88 model, square lights) needs a gearbox rebuild. The car still drives, but it developed a grinding noise. The carrier bearing on the diff side of the gearbox was diagnosed as the problem, using a stephoscope with the car up on a hoist. Not sure how extensive the damage is, all I know is that the carrier bearing is gone.

So to repair it, I have a number of questions (I will be rebuilding it with the help of a friend who is a mechanic - or I will be helping him, rather!).

1. What is the gearbox code? The engine is a F5A (546cc twin cam turbo)
2. What parts will I need to replace? Can I get away with just replacing the carrier bearing or does just about everything inside need to be replaced? Anyone know any part numbers?
3. Where can I source the parts from? Is this gearbox shared with any other 80's suzukis in Aus? Or will I need to import all the parts from the UK/Japan.
4. The engine will need to be removed to do this right? Remove engine from above or below engine bay? And I assume its easiest to remove engine and gearbox in one hit rather than seperating it?

[Al_Zhiemer]

First up decide how much money you want to spend on the rebuild.

Yes you could just strip it down and replace only the carrier bearing but seeing as you are going to have the gearbox pulled down that far, i would replace any bearing i cam across. Also replace the syncro rings as well while you're there, if you can get a hold of new ones and depending on your budget.

Would also recommend sourcing new seals while you have it down.

As for sourcing bearings/seals. once they are removed, any reputable bearing supply specialist should be able to match them up or order them in.

If you can't get gaskets to suit, buy a sheet of gasket paper, a small ballpeen hammer and set to work making your own.

Good luck with it.

Cheers

[Brayden]

I'm with Al on this one. For the time and effort it will take you to remove the engine and gearbox (yes that is the easiest way), you are far better off rebuilding the box and replacing the clutch.

Now the issue here will be parts. The 5 speed you have is unique to import Alto models - nothing was sold in Australia with that box. The good news is that once you've stripped the box, someone like CBC should be able to match the numbers and give you replacement bearings. The syncro rings will be more difficult, but Suzuki might be able to help you if you give them the chassis number. Alternatively Cappuccino Sport might be able to source parts.

Of course there is always the option of switching to a 4 speed from an F8B - yes you will loose 5th gear, but the F8B 4 speed actually has a taller final drive, so it should cruise better in 4th than your current box does in 5th!

[gilly]

Thanks for the posts guys. Ill see what my mate says - hes a mechanic, so he should be able to help with sourcing parts - he also might be buying the car back off me (I bought it off him a year ago) - it will be sad to see it go, but I cant afford to run 2 cars anymore - so if I knew I was keeping it for a while I would definately go the full rebuild - but I guess its up to my mate now.

[n2o_spark]

if you really get stuck, i've got a spare 5spd gearbox for my alto RS-R which i set aside in case i had any problems. But since i've got a k6a now, my old f5a gearbox, is now pretty redundant. I'm not sure which kind of condition it's in, but it was fine when i first got it, with no grinding.

(got engine with stuffed head, and got spare motor, replaced motor ( using now ) now have lot of spare bits )

oh, and removing engine/gearbox, from the top, i found was easiest.

[gilly]

hmmm interesting. The gearbox for the 4WD would be a bit different to the FWD though wouldnt it?

Wouldnt happen to have a spare radiator, fog light cover, or rear hatch would you?

[n2o_spark]

i've only got spare motor bits, sorry.
the only difference i would there would be is that the AWD box has the bit for the tailshaft. so if you wanted to convert yours to AWD later, you could. you'd have to ask around though i guess. The box is at my mum's so i can't get any measurements for a while, but i'm headed up there in a few weeks time i think,

[gilly]

anyone know if a gearbox from an F6A will bolt straight into mine?

[Brayden]

Bellhousing bolt pattern should be the same, but if the F6A box is AWD then you will have other differences with the selector (rod/cable), driveshafts, mounts, and the tailshaft output could possibly foul the body/steering rack.

[gilly]

ok cool, so a FWD gearbox from a F6A twin cam turbo will bolt straight onto my FWD F5A twin cam turbo?

just making sure - sorry about the million questions.

[Brayden]

It should fit, but I make no guarantee - there are too many subtle differences between Suzuki Kei models that I have given up trying to be certain about most things!

Of course if it does fit, the gear ratios will be noticeably different - this will also affect the speedo reading.

[gazuga]

ive got an f6b twin cam fwd box in the shed, i can take a few pics of it for you if its any help, assuming of course the f6a and f6b box are the same

[gilly]

Anyone know what the part number of this gearbox would be? I am trying to get quotes on a rebuild, but I need the part number of the box to help them.

This site has some codes: http://translate.google.com.au/translat ... n&ie=UTF-8

The 'AGRS-XE3' bit - what does this relate to? Is it the gearbox code?

Also, Cuppucino Sport sent me a pdf of the CA72 gearbox parts diagram - I am not 100% sure if this is for the CA72 Works model or just a regular F5A non turbo? If this is the correct gearbox, which is the part number for the actual box?

PDF is here: http://3amdev.com/simon/alto/CA72-engin ... -parts.pdf

Thanks!

[gilly]

anyone know where I can find the gearbox part number? Can it be viewed from underneath or above the engine? (gearbox is still in the car, I have had a look but couldnt find it).

I need to find out urgently.

[Brayden]

It should be stamped on the edge of the bellhousing closest to the block.