Hubs and brakes

[v8fazz]

Hi guys. Ive been reading through lots of old posts and just want to confirm a few things.. Going by this table from an old thread-

Height combinations work out as follows:

MB struts + MB hubs + low King Springs = ~40mm drop
GTi struts + MB hubs + low King Springs = ~65mm drop
GTi struts + GTi hubs + low King Springs = ~40mm drop
MB struts + GTi hubs + low King Springs = ~25mm drop
GTi struts + MB hubs + standard springs = ~25mm drop

You can use just about any combination of MB / SA Swift struts and hubs to get various different lowered hights. Just wanted to check-

The 2 different ways to lower by 40mm, Do you get the exact same result either way or are there differences with steering geometry, caster, etc? Is one way the prefered method over the other? Will going to 65mm lowered with Swift struts and MB hubs have any negative effects with steering geometry as above?

If using swift hubs with either swift or MB struts, my understanding is that the Swift rotors can then be used. What is the size difference of these rotors compared to standard MB? Diameter, width, ventilated or solid? I assume I wouls also use the Swift callipers etc and convert as a complete unit with struts, hubs, discs, callipers..?

If using Swift hubs and brakes on the front that would give me 12mm studs if Im not mistaken. Whats the best method for changing the rear to 12mm? Re-drill and convert? Or can Swift rears be bolted on? If so do I need just the rear hubs or full assembly- hubs, drums, etc?

Thanks for the help.
Dave.

[evilgidget]

Throwing the GTi hubs into the mix adds a few problems with steering geometry. It can be solved, but it just turns a 2 hour job into a 10 hour one.

[v8fazz]

Thanks. What are the 'few problems' that you mention? Is it just a case of the steering geometry being a little out of wack? Nothing that a good wheel alignment couldnt fix? Or is there a lot more to it than that? Whats involved in solving these 'problems'?

Using the table below, I take it that GTi struts and GTi hubs with standard height King Springs will give the same 25mm drop as the GTi struts and MB hubs? Has anyone used the Aurora lowered springs (35mm)? If so opinions on quality, feel, ride hight etc as they are a bit more expensive then the Kings.

Also, as per the table below, wondering why when using MB struts with lowered king springs, using MB hubs gives 40mm drop but using GTi hubs only gives 25mm drop? Is this correct or is there a miss-print? If so why the difference? Going on what Ive read on other threads I thought the difference in ride height was due to the GTi struts being used, not due to the hubs?

If using the Swift hubs with either strut, whats the best way to change the rears to 12mm studs to match?

Cheers.
Dave.

[Brayden]

There is no typo in the information I supplied in the other thread (that you've used here).

The difference is with the lower brackets on the different struts. Swift bracket is straight, MB bracket has a 25mm dogleg in it. So the combination of hub/strut/spring you choose will affect the ride height.

Re: The question about Swift rotors - there is no practical difference between SA Swift and MB rotors. However SA Swift GTI hubs have larger, ventilated discs. Obviously that makes a massive difference to braking performance.

The difficulties in using GTi hubs depend on what configuration you go with, but the basic requirement is custom brake lines. Depending on your choice of struts/springs and ride height you may need to customise the bolting points for the strut and/or tie rod ends. The latter modification is necessary if you plan on going lower than standard ride height and involves machining and sleeving the hub to flip the tie rod ends. Otherwise the rod ends foul badly on the chassis.

Obviously any changes to the struts/rod ends will change the geometry, which will also need to be rectified either through alignment adjustments or customising the components.

[v8fazz]

Thanks Brayden.

Please correct me if Im wrong - I read that SA struts with SA hubs and standard height HD springs will bolt straight on, except for brake line mods, and give about 1" lowered compared to standard. But depending on the combination, going too low with the Swift struts can cause clearence issues with tie rod ends, etc.

So if planning to use SA struts, SA GTi Hubs and GTi rotors I should have no other issues besides the brake lines? Will the GTi rotors fit standard SA Swift hubs or are the GTi hubs different? Would I need GTi calipers or are they they identical to standard SA?

And if going ahead with the SA hubs on the front, is there a 'bolt on' method to change the rear to 12mm to match?

Thanks again for your help.
Dave.

[Brayden]

If you're looking at this conversion, then use all GTI parts. Trying to fit GTi rotors and calipers to a standard SA hub is an unnecessary complication of the process.

With the 1" drop there's still a good chance the rod ends would foul on the chassis under full suspension compression, but you could choose to cross that bridge when you come to it.

With the Swift GTi rear drums, you aren't going to gain anything by doing the swap. Better off just getting the MB drums redrilled for 12mm studs.

Also worth noting that only the SA Swift GTI has 12mm studs - standard SA Swift is 10mm.

[v8fazz]

Thanks again Brayden.

"With the 1" drop there's still a good chance the rod ends would foul on the chassis under full suspension compression, but you could choose to cross that bridge when you come to it."

Is this due to the Swift parts being used or will the same problem occur when lowering no matter what strut / hub combination is used?

I didnt know that only the GTi had the 12mm studs. Thanks for the info.

Dave.

[Brayden]

The Swift hubs require the rod ends to be mounted from above, whereas the MB hubs mount from below. So the Swift hubs bring the rack ends much closer to the chassis.

[v8fazz]

Thanks again Brayden.

Cheers.

[shavenyak]

Just another question about hubs - Would the GTI hubs have much stronger wheel bearings than MB/Hatch ones?
I've had to replace my Hatch ones more than once - they seem to be pretty flimsy. I'm about to order some more bearing kits to replace all four corners, but am just wondering if I should hold out and get some GTI hubs instead. If I stick with the standard hubs I will be replacing the standard studs with 12mm anyway.

[Brayden]

The bearings aren't any stronger. If you're chewing through standard ones then there's an issue somewhere. I've got MB's here with 200k on the original bearings.