Well, the ECU finally arrived today! I say finally because of a phone call received from customs a few days ago regarding the private importation of an item to the worth of over $1000. Apparently the invoice entitles them to open the box up, have a look around, close it and whack a ~$200 duty on top of it oh well, life goes on I suppose (would've been nice if they re-packed the box properly and without making it look as though it had gone a few rounds on a soccer field though!).
Aaand, pictures:
As the cabin was on monday...
I'd forgotten how bad it was behind there... half of a CM11-V loom, three quarters of an HA22 loom and a whole heap of "custom wiring" in-between! I suppose it was really an electrical fire waiting to happen so that's another bonus with the upgrade - peace of mind.
So yeah, hopefully it should be up and running again come the weekend. Decided to send the CAS off to a machinist to get done properly so everything falls on when that gets back.
Ought to be able to put some footage up of a khanacross on sunday if it makes it , that's the goal anyway.
Rogan's Alto Works Project
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
The CAS didnt come back from the machinist until yesterday unfortunately but on the bright side, it ran today!
A few little electrical gremlins (a silly mistake made while wiring a car up for the first time, at least the smoke didn't come out of the ecu ), and a pinhole in a brazed water fitting for the turbo later and... well... wow.
I'm very impressed with the ease of setup on the ECU and using the Nissan CAS, takes about 1.5 revolutions of the crank to start, idles when warm at 900RPM ... and is yet to see the dyno! for clarification, it has never happily idled below 1200 before and usually took about 6-10 seconds of cranking to start.
And the visit to the dyno will be later on this week... next hurdle? rego!
A few little electrical gremlins (a silly mistake made while wiring a car up for the first time, at least the smoke didn't come out of the ecu ), and a pinhole in a brazed water fitting for the turbo later and... well... wow.
I'm very impressed with the ease of setup on the ECU and using the Nissan CAS, takes about 1.5 revolutions of the crank to start, idles when warm at 900RPM ... and is yet to see the dyno! for clarification, it has never happily idled below 1200 before and usually took about 6-10 seconds of cranking to start.
And the visit to the dyno will be later on this week... next hurdle? rego!
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
Cheers Lunacy
Since my last update all that has been happening have been mind games. Holy Shit...
From the ECU's perspective: "Hey, you've done an alright job of wiring me, but I'm going to float some channels to ground just so your fan turns on when you turn the ignition off. Oh you fixed that? How about I play silly buggers with the fuel pump now! Ahh, you're a crafty one, what if I backfeed through the idle solenoid so you can't turn the ignition off AND it sits on 6000RPM?... Bahaha that f*cked ya didn't it!"
I'm positive the Kiwis designed this little blue devil box just to try my sanity. It's alright though, left it for this afternoon to regroup and attack it again tomorrow.
Sorted out the fan switching on by itself and the fuel pump staying on pretty simply, but I think I need to put a relay in the power feed for the idle solenoid (ISC) and switch that with my anti lag, seeing as I'm happy to idle up at the throttle plate.
And on the subject of anti lag - good fun . There isn't a great deal of info on it that I've been able to find as far as setting it up, but progress today made it to about 0 kpa on the MAP sensor, so that's 0 psi of boost at just above idle, so that's no vacuum! Like I said, good fun but damn the engine and inlet temps go through the roof! between 86-90 degrees coolant temps and over 60 degrees inlet temps! definitely thinking I'll need a bigger or water to air intercooler one day.
Another temperature that gets up there on anti lag is exhaust temp. Although I don't have a pyrometer connected, my manifold is blue half way up the waste gate runner and the cabin filled with smoke at one stage - most likely from the catalytic converter trying to set the carpet alight (right beside/under the drivers seat too, the left seat rail was hot enough to burn skin). I looked under the car as well and right along the exhaust were heat waves and it was probably under-body sealant that was beginning to singe and smoke in places.
However, today's biggest frustration was with the RTA (RMS). *Rant* I tried to renew my rego over the internet today, having paid for my green slip the other day and put simply I couldn't register it as the RTA didn't recognise that I'd paid my CTP... supposed to be a system all linked up and working, doesn't, got mad, an hour or two of unproductivity. All said and done though, realistically it won't be tuned until Monday afternoon anyway so I can just spend the morning waiting for the doors to open at the RTA office
And hence ended the escapades of today.
Since my last update all that has been happening have been mind games. Holy Shit...
From the ECU's perspective: "Hey, you've done an alright job of wiring me, but I'm going to float some channels to ground just so your fan turns on when you turn the ignition off. Oh you fixed that? How about I play silly buggers with the fuel pump now! Ahh, you're a crafty one, what if I backfeed through the idle solenoid so you can't turn the ignition off AND it sits on 6000RPM?... Bahaha that f*cked ya didn't it!"
I'm positive the Kiwis designed this little blue devil box just to try my sanity. It's alright though, left it for this afternoon to regroup and attack it again tomorrow.
Sorted out the fan switching on by itself and the fuel pump staying on pretty simply, but I think I need to put a relay in the power feed for the idle solenoid (ISC) and switch that with my anti lag, seeing as I'm happy to idle up at the throttle plate.
And on the subject of anti lag - good fun . There isn't a great deal of info on it that I've been able to find as far as setting it up, but progress today made it to about 0 kpa on the MAP sensor, so that's 0 psi of boost at just above idle, so that's no vacuum! Like I said, good fun but damn the engine and inlet temps go through the roof! between 86-90 degrees coolant temps and over 60 degrees inlet temps! definitely thinking I'll need a bigger or water to air intercooler one day.
Another temperature that gets up there on anti lag is exhaust temp. Although I don't have a pyrometer connected, my manifold is blue half way up the waste gate runner and the cabin filled with smoke at one stage - most likely from the catalytic converter trying to set the carpet alight (right beside/under the drivers seat too, the left seat rail was hot enough to burn skin). I looked under the car as well and right along the exhaust were heat waves and it was probably under-body sealant that was beginning to singe and smoke in places.
However, today's biggest frustration was with the RTA (RMS). *Rant* I tried to renew my rego over the internet today, having paid for my green slip the other day and put simply I couldn't register it as the RTA didn't recognise that I'd paid my CTP... supposed to be a system all linked up and working, doesn't, got mad, an hour or two of unproductivity. All said and done though, realistically it won't be tuned until Monday afternoon anyway so I can just spend the morning waiting for the doors to open at the RTA office
And hence ended the escapades of today.
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
Why on earth would you need anti-lag on such a small motor? If anything I want to fit a larger turbo on mine to introduce some lag so the little huffer isn't working so hard at low RPM!
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
Pops, bangs and sex appeal
it's all about learning, see what works, what doesn't, overcoming issues as they pop up and finding the limitations of myself and my machine. I've got a few people watching over my shoulder to make sure I don't go too far, but for the most part I want to be able to say "I built the engine, wired the car and ECU, modified everything I had to to make it work, and it goes... HARD"
Also: I just found the holy grail of anti lag setup information, in the PCLink tuning software help menu. After printing out almost 40 pages (some were regarding launch control and IAC valve setup, but it all related to fun stuff), I am confident I should have anti lag running properly soon... I mean, they even gave me some base tables to copy into the ECU for timing and fuel trims on anti lag
it's all about learning, see what works, what doesn't, overcoming issues as they pop up and finding the limitations of myself and my machine. I've got a few people watching over my shoulder to make sure I don't go too far, but for the most part I want to be able to say "I built the engine, wired the car and ECU, modified everything I had to to make it work, and it goes... HARD"
Also: I just found the holy grail of anti lag setup information, in the PCLink tuning software help menu. After printing out almost 40 pages (some were regarding launch control and IAC valve setup, but it all related to fun stuff), I am confident I should have anti lag running properly soon... I mean, they even gave me some base tables to copy into the ECU for timing and fuel trims on anti lag
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw9xw6V1Spo
Here's a little video of the progress I made today. Only worked on it for probably an hour and a half. Last night while researching all about it I set all the parameters on a blank file, wrote them down and transferred them to my ECU today. I kept going until my mum walked down to the workshop complaining about our neighbours complaining
It's actually quite interesting how the three maps integrate and what they do / how they make the car behave, but I found as a general rule:
More ignition retard - More spool but hotter
More fuel - More spool to an extent but hotter (catalytic converter!)
More ignition cut - Bigger bangs
Pretty simple really, it's all logic - no black magic at all (as previously believed).
Still, so far I have a personal best of 5psi boost on decel - pretty aggressive though. I wouldn't want to run the car like that for more than a minute or two tops for risk of setting something alight. As it is I think I may have split a seam on the cat. Smoke was billowing out of one of them.
Here's a little video of the progress I made today. Only worked on it for probably an hour and a half. Last night while researching all about it I set all the parameters on a blank file, wrote them down and transferred them to my ECU today. I kept going until my mum walked down to the workshop complaining about our neighbours complaining
It's actually quite interesting how the three maps integrate and what they do / how they make the car behave, but I found as a general rule:
More ignition retard - More spool but hotter
More fuel - More spool to an extent but hotter (catalytic converter!)
More ignition cut - Bigger bangs
Pretty simple really, it's all logic - no black magic at all (as previously believed).
Still, so far I have a personal best of 5psi boost on decel - pretty aggressive though. I wouldn't want to run the car like that for more than a minute or two tops for risk of setting something alight. As it is I think I may have split a seam on the cat. Smoke was billowing out of one of them.
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
Most issues have been resolved, so I'll just leave this here
Today's effort: Known Issues:
- Clutch adjustment bolt contacts a radiator hose.
- Intercooler is WAY too small. A water-to-air or dual water-to-air intercooler setup is on the cards.
- Already a rattle in the gearbox, may have bent the main/input shaft or collapsed a bearing.
- Oil leak around the front part of the sump (been there forever )
- LAG... a little down about when it comes on, I was hoping for 6000 RPM, doesn't get going until 7000 RPM. Hence ceramic coating the manifold, turbine housing and dump pipe is on cards also. hoping to get spooling down to 6500RPM.
- Need a boost gauge that reads past 20psi...
Today's effort: Known Issues:
- Clutch adjustment bolt contacts a radiator hose.
- Intercooler is WAY too small. A water-to-air or dual water-to-air intercooler setup is on the cards.
- Already a rattle in the gearbox, may have bent the main/input shaft or collapsed a bearing.
- Oil leak around the front part of the sump (been there forever )
- LAG... a little down about when it comes on, I was hoping for 6000 RPM, doesn't get going until 7000 RPM. Hence ceramic coating the manifold, turbine housing and dump pipe is on cards also. hoping to get spooling down to 6500RPM.
- Need a boost gauge that reads past 20psi...
Last edited by Rogue_Works on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
Congrats on the improvement, but if I'm reading the dyno plot correctly the horsepower went up by 40%, yet peak torque remains almost the same. That doesn't add up.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
Cheers Brayden
power = work / time*
therefore:
horsepower = torque / revs*
So, if the peak torque is higher in the rev range, the peak power will be higher and correspondingly later in the revs too (as power is a derivative of torque).
Keep in mind though that I got my HSC results today and only scored 67 in my physics exam
I don't think there is any funny business going on with the dyno or the operator. It's the same dyno set to the same calibration, same operator with just about a year's difference between the two sessions.
A little experiment I just thought about, not sure how accurate it is but makes sense to me...
Grab a heavy object in one hand (a dumbbell would be good),
Slowly lift it up so that the time taken from bottom to top is one second,
Now do it twice in one second,
See if you can do it three times a second!
It takes more "power" to lift the weight (work) the same distance over a shorter "time".
Dynos measure torque, not horsepower. Note how the horsepower follows the torque curve but is seemingly multiplied by a given ratio. That's the same reason as to why if you have a perfectly flat torque curve you should get a straight, diagonal power curve.
Does that help at all?
EDIT: Sorry people, but I think the divides in the formulae should be multiplies .
It's still the same idea, just got the signs around the wrong way (hence where the other 33 physics marks went...).
marked them with an asterisk*
and found this: "HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252"
here: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_te ... torque.htm
A pretty interesting page and that is the "given ratio" I was referring to above.
power = work / time*
therefore:
horsepower = torque / revs*
So, if the peak torque is higher in the rev range, the peak power will be higher and correspondingly later in the revs too (as power is a derivative of torque).
Keep in mind though that I got my HSC results today and only scored 67 in my physics exam
I don't think there is any funny business going on with the dyno or the operator. It's the same dyno set to the same calibration, same operator with just about a year's difference between the two sessions.
A little experiment I just thought about, not sure how accurate it is but makes sense to me...
Grab a heavy object in one hand (a dumbbell would be good),
Slowly lift it up so that the time taken from bottom to top is one second,
Now do it twice in one second,
See if you can do it three times a second!
It takes more "power" to lift the weight (work) the same distance over a shorter "time".
Dynos measure torque, not horsepower. Note how the horsepower follows the torque curve but is seemingly multiplied by a given ratio. That's the same reason as to why if you have a perfectly flat torque curve you should get a straight, diagonal power curve.
Does that help at all?
EDIT: Sorry people, but I think the divides in the formulae should be multiplies .
It's still the same idea, just got the signs around the wrong way (hence where the other 33 physics marks went...).
marked them with an asterisk*
and found this: "HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252"
here: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_te ... torque.htm
A pretty interesting page and that is the "given ratio" I was referring to above.
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
Also, the old graph is about 40% LESS power .
The new graph is about 70% more power (not far off 120hp which is 100% more power)
105.8 / 61.6 = 1.72 = 172%
So that's 172% of 61.6, which is a 72% increase in power
Sorry, I just noticed that.
The new graph is about 70% more power (not far off 120hp which is 100% more power)
105.8 / 61.6 = 1.72 = 172%
So that's 172% of 61.6, which is a 72% increase in power
Sorry, I just noticed that.
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
Hey guys, the results from two days of shakedown are in!
The Good:
- Cruises along happily at 90 km/h, 4500 RPM in fourth. labours in fifth at that speed though.
- Dependant on where I hold the throttle (retarded lower ignition map to help spool the turbo at the expense of low power), coolant temps sit on between 81 and 85 degrees at cruise.
- Intake temps stay down to 45 at cruise (warm weather though, not stinking hot).
- fuel economy of "mixed" driving (cruising around with the occasional thrash from 50 km/h -"90 km/h"), appears to be around the 15-18 L/100km
The Bad:
- Clutch pedal bracket bends when the pedal is pushed and fouls on the steering linkages.
- Brakes are inconsistent as I don't believe the booster is getting enough vacuum to work properly.
- The catch can breather occasionally moves and rubs on the main crank pulley.
- The hazard light switch periodically vibrates down and cuts the indicators out without engaging the hazards.
Also discovered the efficiency of my intercooler today as well. In a previous post I mentioned I needed a boost gauge that read above 20psi. That reading was from the turbo. Watching the data from my ECU, when the boost gauge was reading 20psi, manifold was only getting 14-16psi... definitely need a better flowing system.
The Good:
- Cruises along happily at 90 km/h, 4500 RPM in fourth. labours in fifth at that speed though.
- Dependant on where I hold the throttle (retarded lower ignition map to help spool the turbo at the expense of low power), coolant temps sit on between 81 and 85 degrees at cruise.
- Intake temps stay down to 45 at cruise (warm weather though, not stinking hot).
- fuel economy of "mixed" driving (cruising around with the occasional thrash from 50 km/h -"90 km/h"), appears to be around the 15-18 L/100km
The Bad:
- Clutch pedal bracket bends when the pedal is pushed and fouls on the steering linkages.
- Brakes are inconsistent as I don't believe the booster is getting enough vacuum to work properly.
- The catch can breather occasionally moves and rubs on the main crank pulley.
- The hazard light switch periodically vibrates down and cuts the indicators out without engaging the hazards.
Also discovered the efficiency of my intercooler today as well. In a previous post I mentioned I needed a boost gauge that read above 20psi. That reading was from the turbo. Watching the data from my ECU, when the boost gauge was reading 20psi, manifold was only getting 14-16psi... definitely need a better flowing system.
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"
- Rogue_Works
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm
- Location: Kempsey, NSW
finally broke the gearbox
"c'mon guys, it's not that small"